Another 'Vehicle' incident in Sydney

Phil Perry

Well-Known Member
#1
Another Vehicle versus Pedestrian on the streets of a Major City ( forget Strasbourg today,,. . .that's just part and parcel of living in a vibrant, Diverse society and after all, the Authoriies KNEW in advnce that the attacker was a 'Bad Un' )

It will be interesting to see how the Australian Authorities play this one,. . I Hope that t was an 'Accident' and I am REALLY HAPPY that no-one s reported dead.

If it WAS terrorism, then,. . .I wonder what the common denominator could possibly be ? ? ? ? ?

Buggered if I know. . .it's a complete mystery innit ?
 

octave

Well-Known Member
#2
Another Vehicle versus Pedestrian on the streets of a Major City ( forget Strasbourg today,,. . .that's just part and parcel of living in a vibrant, Diverse society and after all, the Authoriies KNEW in advnce that the attacker was a 'Bad Un' )

It will be interesting to see how the Australian Authorities play this one,. . I Hope that t was an 'Accident' and I am REALLY HAPPY that no-one s reported dead.

If it WAS terrorism, then,. . .I wonder what the common denominator could possibly be ? ? ? ? ?

Buggered if I know. . .it's a complete mystery innit ?
Is this the incident you are refering to?

Alexandria truck crash: One dead, multiple seriously injured after incident in Sydney’s south
 

old man emu

Well-Known Member
#3
Not the big T. We better not talk about this here in case CASA is alerted to the cause and uses the health of the driver to ditch self-assessment medicals for private operations.

It is truly sad that the dead and injured and their families have to suffer this tragedy. One thing is sure. The truck could not have been travelling at speed on that road at that time. That road carries a lot of airport traffic as well as traffic going to work by car and bus.
 

nomadpete

Well-Known Member
#4
Bring on driverless cars (& trucks). They don't need to be perfect to be heaps safer than allowing mere human beings to have charge of transportation.
My condolences go out to to those affected.
 

red750

Well-Known Member
#5
Discussion on the ABC the other night - when a crash is inevitable, and someone is most likely going to be killed, should we leave it up to a driverless car to decide who dies? I missed the beginning, so I don't know if this was an actual or hypothetical situation, but they were discussing a situation where a mother and child in the car died when it crashed to avoid three drunks on the road. The "expert" on the panel said cars could be programmed to recognise faces and decide who should be saved - in a fraction of a second. I think the program was called Tomorrow Today.
 

nomadpete

Well-Known Member
#6
There are tough moral choices indeed. And difficult to programme, but not impossible.

But have you considered whether the average motorist actually deliberates such choices when they are about to have a Collision?

I suspect that the motorist first values the course of action that maximises their own survival first, then the welfare of others after that. The survival instinct automatically cuts in. I would generally put more faith in a computer to make a cold, rational decision. Unfortunately though that might kill me in favour of the other/s involved!
 

Litespeed

Well-Known Member
#7
Given most situations where pedestrians are about, the speeds are relatively low. New cars are extremely safe esp. The euro ones like Volvo, merc etc so the default should be pedestrians saved first. I watched the show and the scenario was unlikely to have killed the car occupants anyway.

Humans do not always go for their safety first in accidents and often just panic or do stupid **** eg swearving to miss a dog, wombat, dropbearetc and running into oncoming traffic. Or the classic of heading off road and fixation on the tree rather than steering around it. Research proves humans are often idiots.
 

nomadpete

Well-Known Member
#8
Litespeed, you have added more reasons to support my assertion that hoomin beens are not suited to being in charge of motor vehicles. Or anything else that goes faster than walking pace.

However, I do worry that AI could be programmed to have a scale of human values related to face recognition.... It is already capable of identifying an individual, and checking age, number of dependants, whether any outstanding arrest warrants, who they voted for,...... And instantly deciding whether to swerve around me or not. Thank goodness Mal Turnbull screwed up our NBN.
 
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Old Koreelah

Well-Known Member
#9
Given most situations where pedestrians are about, the speeds are relatively low. New cars are extremely safe esp...
Unless dangerous bits are added to them, such as this lethal item which is found clamped to thousands of bull bars (themselves dangerous enough).
Had a bit of thought gone into the design, the pipes could project back from the top rail of the bull bar, but instead they project forward; apparently designed to disembowel any pedestrians they impact.
 

Attachments

Litespeed

Well-Known Member
#10
My point was cars are safer for the occupants not those outside but in general are getting better at not killing pedestrians. Examples are large gap between bonnet and engine to stop your head smashing into engine. New Volvos push bonnet upwards when hit by a pedestrian. Some cars even have a airbag to do this.

You can even get a BMW bike with a airbag now for the rider and Dainese make airbag jackets that protect the body, neck and head.

Bull bars should be illegal for any vehicle not registered in a country area, they are designed to kill animals including humans. At one stage NSW was going to do this but backed down as the wimps they are. Only the soft shaped ones that are airbag approved should be legal.

Some new cars are like a Jabiru, you have to try real hard to kill yourself. So pedestrians should come first program wise.
 

spacesailor

Well-Known Member
#11
IF they passed that "NO BULLBAR" law. I would either have to register my two Fourbys at an illegal address, or buy a BIG prime-mover.
No soft plastic on those big boys, like the "stupid plastic" so-called bullbar on my Delica 4X4.
I dread the day when I hit any animal in the Delica as it will be a write-off, Anything bigger than a cat that is.
I have survived a roo strike, only because the fourby HAD a bull-bar, & don't feel safe on a dirt road, out the back of nowhere, where animals are NOT, taught the road rules, without some protection.
PS. I don't drive much in town, too many over insured crazy's there, looking to update last years model by convenient insurance. also stupid pedestrians
bent on getting a pay-out from that same convenient insurance that cost them nothing. Jay walker on the road made & payed for by motorist.
It's about time for the victim motorist to take the pedestrian to court for Vehicular damage.
Just had my first car-crash in sixty yes 60 years, & I wasn't the driver
spacesailor
 

spacesailor

Well-Known Member
#12
Some of the NEW laws/rules. Are too stupid to be SAFE.
Brakes on cars that switch OFF when not getting enough traction, ending up doing 50 kltrs Backwards on a gravel road.
My new Hedge-Clipper that needs two hands to keep operating. leaving no hands for safely holding on to the ladder.
The new lawn-mower that stops dead if you lift one hand to move anything to safety,then have to hold that Stupid "SAFETY" lever, to try and restart it one handed, the list goes on for as long as people are circumventing those stupid laws.
HOW to STOP pedestrian accidents.
PUT a WALL along the kerb of ALL roads, only as high as morons can climb.
Need to cross a road ? Use an over-bridge, or under-pass.
Too many years of governments ledistrating against the motorist !,
From day one " Motor vehicles must have a man walking ahead with a red flag & bell to warn people of impending motor"
spacesailor
 

Litespeed

Well-Known Member
#13
Spacey, trust me I like to see the Darwin award given, just doesn't happen often enough without innocents also copping it.

Mowers, is yours self propelled? They often have the dead mans lever. You can always strap into the on position and add a switch if you want to stop it etc.

Yes I hate the dumb mower switches, my brush cutter safety switch is constantly turning off as it is too close to the throttle. On the damn mower it gets turned off if you go under a low tree or brush.

Biggest piss off is ones with a see through pump bulb on the carb, they rarely last a year. Then spew fuel everywhere. Had a Stihl once that caught fire whilst in use from damn cheap bulb and non tygon fuel lines. Burnt my arm, all for a few cents saved making it.

I was once a small engine mechanic, some where so **** they died on first use and we just threw them away as cheaper to replace than repair..

For hedges get a smallish portable trestle under $200 and walk along in safety, falling from ladders six. Once fell two stories, it really .......hurts.
 

spacesailor

Well-Known Member
#14
I once (as a child) fell out of a sixty foot tree, the top branch snapped off under my puny weight, and I pruned one side of that tree on the way down.
Some buger has cut it down, just the stump to show wifey were I grew up.
Bought an electric chain-saw that died looking at a bigget branch to prune $80 to $90 to buy spares in Aussie, about $US 30 in states.
spacesailor
 

Litespeed

Well-Known Member
#15
Yep height hurts. I was "lucky" and fell 7 metres, broke through the tiles and got stopped by the big bloody truss across my side between pelvis and ribs. Not a great day as a chimney sweep in the Blue mountains. Four seasons in half a hour.

Naturally in a crap load of pain then shock, apologized for the damage and said I would be back next day. Didn't turn out that way.

Stupid youth and bravado, still have probs 25 years on.
 

octave

Well-Known Member
#16
IF they passed that "NO BULLBAR" law. I would either have to register my two Fourbys at an illegal address, or buy a BIG prime-mover.
No soft plastic on those big boys, like the "stupid plastic" so-called bullbar on my Delica 4X4.
I dread the day when I hit any animal in the Delica as it will be a write-off, Anything bigger than a cat that is.
I have survived a roo strike, only because the fourby HAD a bull-bar, & don't feel safe on a dirt road, out the back of nowhere, where animals are NOT, taught the road rules, without some protection.
PS. I don't drive much in town, too many over insured crazy's there, looking to update last years model by convenient insurance. also stupid pedestrians
bent on getting a pay-out from that same convenient insurance that cost them nothing. Jay walker on the road made & payed for by motorist.
It's about time for the victim motorist to take the pedestrian to court for Vehicular damage.
Just had my first car-crash in sixty yes 60 years, & I wasn't the driver
spacesailor

I lived 100km out of Canberra for 21 years, during this time I worked in Canberra and travelled home 6 days a week at around about 9PM Over these thousands of journeys I had only three wildlife collisions, 2 of them were minor 1 was a little more costly but still not too bad. I had neighbours who seemed to hit roos or wombats every week I put this discrepancy down to the fact that over 21 years doing this drive I learnt a lot about driving in this environment, where I could drive at the speed limit and where I needed to slow down.
I did consider at one stage whether or not a bull bar would improve safety for me and my family. At the time it was more difficult to get a bull bar that was specifically designed for my car. This is crucial, there is no point in having an airbag that does not fire as intended in an accident. Also, one reason there has been a dramatic drop in the road toll is the design of modern vehicles when it comes to crumple zones. I would much rather crash into a tree in my modern Ford Focus with its airbags and scientifically engineered crumple zone than a vehicle with a structure bolted to the front, designed to protect the structure of the car rather than protecting the occupants from the G-forces that tend to kill you.

Bull bars are ok if they are specifically designed to be compatible with the safety features of the vehicle.
 

spacesailor

Well-Known Member
#17
Luckily,
For me I was driving well Under the 110 kph limit, when a mob of roos jumped into my headlight glare.
80 k's out of bourke NSW, on the Micheal Hw.
After tidying the front of my Jackaroo, kicking broken headlights off the road, I followed an interstate coach, only to have another roo sit up after the bus passed over it, My car wasn't that high to miss it, and I didn't move it off the road this time.
Gave me a love of all things that contribute to safety.
spaceailor
 

old man emu

Well-Known Member
#18
Wildlife will tend to live in a particular bit of territory. When the highway passes through that territory, collisions are likely when the wildlife is moving through their territory at dawn and dusk. If you travel the same length of road nearly every day, you will know where the wildlife crossings are, as Octave did, and be more diligent there. It is the strangers to the territory who will collide with wildlife, because they don't know the locations of these crossings.

As for fitting bull bars, here's and interesting comment from RACV, Bull bars - Is fitting them a bad idea?
 

spacesailor

Well-Known Member
#19
OME
Extract taken from your link :
" and how this is affected by a blooming-great metal edifice attached to the front end " Just shows the bias of the writer,
"minimise injuries to unprotected road users. " my sentiments entirely KEEP jay-walkers off the road.
AND ALL road user's to have to SHOW registration numbers.
So motorist can sue for damage any cyclist or jaywalker causes to the person paying for the roadway.
spacesailor
 

Bruce

Well-Known Member
#20
I too hate stupid safety features which make things more dangerous to operate. So I remove guards and tape triggers closed etc, which probably goes too far the other way. Why can't we find a sensible balance I wonder.

My kids were always told to ride their bikes on the footpath, taking great care to not be hit by a car exiting a driveway. I would rather have gone to jail than have a kid hit by a drunken lawyer in a 4wd.( This refers to an actual case in SA. The lawyer killed the cyclist and got off scot free. He now does well as a specialist lawyer in similar cases )

40 years later, the law now allows anybody to ride a bike on the footpath and this has persuaded me to use a bike myself. The footpath is generally empty and the roads are crammed with 4wd's, some of them driven by lawyers. I am careful to not frighten any of the rare pedestrians and have yet to meet a hostile one.
 
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