Are there any Creationists out there?

Bruce

Well-Known Member
Here's a very unusual thing about this planet. It is almost a binary with its big moon. Now that moon is essential to keep the axis of rotation stable. Without this the axis tilt would vary like Mars and agriculture would never have started.
I reckon its very likely there are no other similar planets. And we might well have ruined this one already.
But here is what is sad... geo-engineering could save us if we for example put thousands of sunshades in orbit . Alas we are squandering the resources which could have done this by fighting amongst ourselves. US plus China military budgets comes to about 1000 billion dollars.
 

Yenn

Well-Known Member
Are those who say farmed animals don't have a good life really aware of what farmed animal life is really like. The beef reared around here is living a good life right up to the day of slaughter. In my days years ago, working with beef, shep pigs and poultry, we had to provide a good lifestyle for them or they would not prosper. Farmers can't afford to mistreat animals, with the exception of modern factory farming methods. Those methods of course are designed to keep the cost of meat down to the consumer. Actually naturally fed meat tastes better than the factory produced stuff, but we do pay a premium for it.
 

Yenn

Well-Known Member
They don't get the chance, the good tasting stuff is not in the supermarket as the mark up is not high enough for Coles, Woolies etc.
I buy mine from a local grower, who spends a lot of time carting it 150km or more, to sell at local markets or deliver previously ordered meat.
The price is higher, but the extra work and fuel used would not cover the cost.
I was producing milk in the sixties for 36 pence a gallon. That is 30 cents. In the intervening years wages have gone from about $25 per week to I don't know what but milk has increased about 12 fold in price. Wages should be about $300 and I am sure they are a lot higher than that.
 

Bruce

Well-Known Member
What sort of meat Yenn?
I sure agree with you about wages and prices. I would love to be able to have a young helper around here, but the costs of employing anybody are way higher than the returns their labour can produce. And then there is the legal risk, you could lose the whole farm from an injury claim. Turbs says to stop complaining and think of a scheme so profitable that we can employ people and still make money. Well I'm trying but need to be smarter than I am. In the meantime, its better to produce less and be safer.

Did you see the proposal to force new immigrants to spend some years in "regions" ? Maybe there will be thousands of new immigrants on welfare around here, and we will not be able to afford them either.
 

Yenn

Well-Known Member
We buy grass fed beef, sheep and goat meat, plus free range pig meat. Sadly our chook grower closed up and is moving to a bigger property and we don't know, if or when he will resume production.
Factory produced food is poor. I had a restaurant meal in Victoria, supposedly rabbit, but it was so tasteless that I complained bitterly and got it for half price. Having grown up eating rabbit, both caged bunnies that I kept and those I shot in the wild, I reckon I know what it tastes like.
As for seafood, we have one of the longest coastlines of any country and only a tiny population, but we import 70% according to Old Koreelah. No doubt other countries are plundering our offshore fisheries.
 

Bruce

Well-Known Member
Tomato sauce is apparently surprisingly good for you. There is something in tomatoes which needs cooking to make available.
And I will argue that rainfed pasture meat is kinder to animal life and the environment than what vegetarians eat.
 

facthunter

Well-Known Member
That is true but the SALT and SUGAR aren't that good. Vegetables don't emit Methane till you turn them into Peat and let the atmosphere get at them Takes billions of years. The ANIMALS have to eat vegetables, seeds nuts and grasses so they have to be there anyhow, Vegans are PEOPLE too. Until they force YOU to be one what's the problem? Forcing someone to BELIEVE in a certain form of a god is a frightening concept though. Surely you would just tell a lie and pretend you believed and keep your head. Forcing someone to believe. That doesn't make sense, does it?
 

Bruce

Well-Known Member
I don't have any problem with accepting vegans and in fact I admire them. There was one who was a mate of mine and he used to complain to me of open-class gliding tasks under 600km on the grounds they were artificially short to suit unhealthy people who couldn't fly with complete concentration for 6 or 7 hours at a time. He flew an ASH 25 at the time.
What I object to is the portrayal of meat-producers as being cruel to animals and destructive of the environment. Maybe caged animals fed with irrigated grain fit this criticism, but grass-fed pasture animals sure don't. Just look up stuff on " food and the environment " and you will see the nonsense I am referring to.
 

facthunter

Well-Known Member
Vegans might be Vegans for many reasons. Dangerous to classify a group as being all identical Like..." ALL you Chinese look the same to me" syndrome. ACTUALLY have a good LOOK. They are quite diverse in appearance. Nev
 

Bruce

Well-Known Member
That's right Nev. Some are vegans for their own health and they are different from those who are vegans for animal-rights reasons.
I guess they are all healthier than the rest of us, but it can't be by that much or we would be swamped with vegan centenarians.
 

facthunter

Well-Known Member
Perhaps we will. There are some places where ailments that are common to other places don't exist. Not many, but appears to be mainly diet related. Many Doctors used to Poo poo diet as a factor in disease. They are a diminishing group now. Wild meat is different from a lot of Farmed meat. There's a recent account of someone living in New Zealand and living for long periods out of contact entirely from "normal" sources of food. Certainly NOT a Vegan diet but some very interesting health effects, observed. Nev
 

Marty_d

Well-Known Member
I think there's some very long-lived people in Japan, up near the 120 year mark. Diet high in fish and vegetables, low body weight and small frame.

Of course, some might say that if you have to forego steak, roasts, pudding, fresh bread, bacon, lasagna, coffee and all the other "bad" comfort foods, what's the point of living that long?
 
"Of course, some might say that if you have to forego steak, roasts, pudding, fresh bread, bacon, lasagna, coffee and all the other "bad" comfort foods, what's the point of living that long?"
A French woperson (woman) was the eldest for a while, She smoked(till 100) Drank Free wine & ate everything on the menu, the restaurants in France wouldn't let her pay for anything as they considered her as a Honored guest.
IT should happen to one of us, you could shout a dinner for the forum member's.
LoL
spacesailor
 

facthunter

Well-Known Member
. She is not living that long because she has smoked. She is doing it DESPITE having done those things. Health is the MOST important thing you can have in life. Money wont buy it.. Without it, your life is "pretty Crap" as the youngsters would say, though richer people live longer in many circumstances as they can afford better food and medicine .I used to smoke , You stink when you do and it's about the most stupid thing a supposedly thinking person could do to them selves. Those around you don't get asked if you can blow rotten smoke all over them either, and I'm mortified to recall how I used to smoke everywhere.. Australia has come a long way in the smoking thing. Good result. but not there fully.. It's easy Just stop. You will breathe better and things will taste and smell better in a week and it keeps getting better after that.. Nev
 

Bruce

Well-Known Member
Exercise is also important and this is just becoming recognized and researched. We have a problem in that we are hard-wired
( doctors included ) to avoid exercise except when needed. This has survival value for stone-age people. They have a hard enough time getting enough calories to survive without wasting any on useless pursuits, like climbing Ayers Rock.
But I personally know some old people who are really suffering from lack of exercise and not much else.
One of the things about the Mediterranean diet was that they have more walking there.
In the meantime, some advanced doctors are writing prescriptions for exercise.
 
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