Challenging Religion!
- Thread starter farri
- Start date
Naughty, Naughty. .Can't have people free to think. There will be less profits for the prophets.. who get the best of both worlds (if it is true). Since there are so many who claim that their "one" is the only one then a lot are going to be disappointed or WRONG even.. On balance it would seem possible none of them are the answer. Meanwhile they fight amongst themselves and commit abominations upon each other. Leave me out if you don't mind.. Pass. It wasn't always so... Nev
Nev, it has always been so. Human beasts all seem to need some mechanism to exclude others from their particular group/team/tribe
Religious grouping provides a simple method for discrimination against the masses of others (call them heathens or infidels, etc). We as individuals, cannot relate to large numbers of others so we require some way to reduce the 'group'
Religious grouping provides a simple method for discrimination against the masses of others (call them heathens or infidels, etc). We as individuals, cannot relate to large numbers of others so we require some way to reduce the 'group'
In all honesty, I was gravitating towards embracing religion about 2 years ago - and it lasted about a year. I didin't attend any ceremonies or ritualistic endeavours, but, for whatever reason, I was looking for some spiritual fulfilment. While I was part of this church - work that out!!
I had a pre-conceived notion to settle with my father's handed-down religion - it's not important which one it is.. My partner was starting to get a bit worried as, although we live in an old rectory - nect to the village chuch and we help out (although I have yet to go to a service), we see it as part of binding the community rather than any spiritual - I am not even sure the part time pastor/reverend/priest/whatever actually believes. She (yes, she) does the minimum mandatory stuff apparently and then they have an interactive chin-wag, or so I am told.
But religion has, for some people, become a sanctuary. My ex-Fiancee's mother (in Aus) was a devout catholic. It took me a little while to realise, but she was also a battered wife. We all thought she never left her "husband" because the catholic church forbade separation/divorce. The church, however, provided her with a precious daily hour or so of sanctuary and, dare I say, salvation. Eventually, her husband went a bit too far, and I agreed my finacee's mother could stay with us and we would support her in her divorce proceedings. It was a strain on our relationship - not because I resented her or found she was cramping my style, but I think it was destabilising my fiancee. My fiancee's mother continued her daily service (somethimes they were in solititude, sometimes they are as part of a mass). I went along once and quizzed the priest, father, or wha'ever and, without being accusatory, asked why a church's stance is to prohibit divorce, even in this woman's circumstance..
His answer was candid - "We have been consistently asked by <her name> about how god would see her should she separate and divorce from <his name>; we have consistently said that god has no tolerance of violence imparted by a loved one to another" And, if it is not a direct quote, it is darned not far off. Now, of course, we can argue to the tiss about whether or not any church lives by that at a macro level, as most historical wars, genocides or even acts of terrorism throughout the ages, have been waged in the name of religion. But the point is, for whatever reason, ex-fiancee's mother was hanging in there despite the church effectively saying, wtf - get the gubbins out of there.. But throughout what I thin was about 25 years of marriage (5 kids from memory), the church provided her the time and space and spiritual fulfilment to get through...
I think, for some odd reason, maybe that's what I was looking for. There were a couple of reasons I could put onto it now.. but at the time, I just knew I needed something that wan't there. Of course, I read the scriptures of that particular religion (no, it wasn't dianetics) and after about the thrid paragraph, I knew it was a croc of excrement. I am happy to say, to Bruce's chagrin, I am over trying to find spiritual nirvarna through religion - so you will have to look to someone else to mock. I found my spiritual fulfilment through a good freindof mine, Wolfie Blass (and Johnnie Walker)..
Juyst kidding - I really don't drink that much...
I had a pre-conceived notion to settle with my father's handed-down religion - it's not important which one it is.. My partner was starting to get a bit worried as, although we live in an old rectory - nect to the village chuch and we help out (although I have yet to go to a service), we see it as part of binding the community rather than any spiritual - I am not even sure the part time pastor/reverend/priest/whatever actually believes. She (yes, she) does the minimum mandatory stuff apparently and then they have an interactive chin-wag, or so I am told.
But religion has, for some people, become a sanctuary. My ex-Fiancee's mother (in Aus) was a devout catholic. It took me a little while to realise, but she was also a battered wife. We all thought she never left her "husband" because the catholic church forbade separation/divorce. The church, however, provided her with a precious daily hour or so of sanctuary and, dare I say, salvation. Eventually, her husband went a bit too far, and I agreed my finacee's mother could stay with us and we would support her in her divorce proceedings. It was a strain on our relationship - not because I resented her or found she was cramping my style, but I think it was destabilising my fiancee. My fiancee's mother continued her daily service (somethimes they were in solititude, sometimes they are as part of a mass). I went along once and quizzed the priest, father, or wha'ever and, without being accusatory, asked why a church's stance is to prohibit divorce, even in this woman's circumstance..
His answer was candid - "We have been consistently asked by <her name> about how god would see her should she separate and divorce from <his name>; we have consistently said that god has no tolerance of violence imparted by a loved one to another" And, if it is not a direct quote, it is darned not far off. Now, of course, we can argue to the tiss about whether or not any church lives by that at a macro level, as most historical wars, genocides or even acts of terrorism throughout the ages, have been waged in the name of religion. But the point is, for whatever reason, ex-fiancee's mother was hanging in there despite the church effectively saying, wtf - get the gubbins out of there.. But throughout what I thin was about 25 years of marriage (5 kids from memory), the church provided her the time and space and spiritual fulfilment to get through...
I think, for some odd reason, maybe that's what I was looking for. There were a couple of reasons I could put onto it now.. but at the time, I just knew I needed something that wan't there. Of course, I read the scriptures of that particular religion (no, it wasn't dianetics) and after about the thrid paragraph, I knew it was a croc of excrement. I am happy to say, to Bruce's chagrin, I am over trying to find spiritual nirvarna through religion - so you will have to look to someone else to mock. I found my spiritual fulfilment through a good freindof mine, Wolfie Blass (and Johnnie Walker)..
Juyst kidding - I really don't drink that much...
To think "your" life is SO important it MUST have some real MEANING and PURPOSE is sort of self aggrandizement and total lack of humility. The fight for survival instinct applies beyond the grave (In our minds).. It's NATURAL to desire/want/need it, but that doesn't make it a fact. Gaze into the universe as we can NOW in a way we never could. We are the inhabitants of a tiny blue planet that is but a speck of dust in the enormity of the universe, incomprehensible to our earth bound minds. ALL THIS and we make ourselves the centre of it? Nev
I don't really believe (and have never believed) that life has a grand purpose. In the absence of a grand purpose for me at least is the purpose I give it. I feel a great sense of privilege for just existing in the first place. I have the privilege of being born at a time in history when my odds of surviving into old age are better than in days gone by. I can understand that in a time or place when/where 5 of your 8 children would probably die at a young age and if you were lucky you might reach the grand age of 50, the idea of a grand plan or benevolent overseer was an attractive idea.
I have always enjoyed walking around old cemeteries. I often see ornate and large structures, many of the more recent ones are obviously well visited and looked after but other older ones are often in disrepair. Obviously, anyone who knew or cared for that person is also gone. For some reason I actually find this to be quite comforting. I do not want to be remembered by people I have never met or interacted with.
Now for the life advice. I say be grateful for all the good things in life, realize that for us middle-class folks in the 1st world the problems we whinge about are minuscule compared to 3rd world or in days gone by. Create meaning and a purpose but realize that this is your personal thing and may be of interest to others but probably not. Lastly don't be a dick i.e. be kind.
I have always enjoyed walking around old cemeteries. I often see ornate and large structures, many of the more recent ones are obviously well visited and looked after but other older ones are often in disrepair. Obviously, anyone who knew or cared for that person is also gone. For some reason I actually find this to be quite comforting. I do not want to be remembered by people I have never met or interacted with.
Now for the life advice. I say be grateful for all the good things in life, realize that for us middle-class folks in the 1st world the problems we whinge about are minuscule compared to 3rd world or in days gone by. Create meaning and a purpose but realize that this is your personal thing and may be of interest to others but probably not. Lastly don't be a dick i.e. be kind.
Religion is great, where would we be without the teachings of religion. They point us in the right direction of how we should behave, Religion, or rather the Church, Temple or whatever become a meeting place and bring people together. There is care for people and a helping hand when needed.
It is becoming more and more apparent that the written words of religion are not appropriate in these times so they are being ignored. the priests are not so volatile in their dogma as they used to be and use their own interpretation of the written word to suit their ends.
You must admit that over the decades that religion has done good works, such as educating the young, providing homes for orphans and clubs to keep youngsters off the streets. It has also provided people for us to look up to with high moral standards.
T.I.C.
It is becoming more and more apparent that the written words of religion are not appropriate in these times so they are being ignored. the priests are not so volatile in their dogma as they used to be and use their own interpretation of the written word to suit their ends.
You must admit that over the decades that religion has done good works, such as educating the young, providing homes for orphans and clubs to keep youngsters off the streets. It has also provided people for us to look up to with high moral standards.
T.I.C.
Well, the whole child abuse thing probably tarnishes their morals somewhat. All that aside, I think it's more important to look up to people who do inspiring things. That maths teacher who became an internet sensation. Fred Hollows. Nelson Mandela. But the other thing is that nobody is perfect - Nelson Mandela beat his wife apparently. Find the inspiration where you can but always be clear-eyed about the faults in humanity.
The thing is with morals, it's kind of subjective. Pence, the US vice president, apparently won't meet women without his wife present. High moral standards? Whatever that strange behaviour is, I don't find it something to look up to.
The thing is with morals, it's kind of subjective. Pence, the US vice president, apparently won't meet women without his wife present. High moral standards? Whatever that strange behaviour is, I don't find it something to look up to.
Maybe Pence cannot trust himself. I can understand that, pity some of the others don't feel the same way.
It is not only the child abuse that tarnishes their morals.
My brother in law is a very religous person. C of E in the UK. He married a divorcee and the local priest refused to let them marry in the church. They married in a registry office. I was there for the occasion, but didn't go to the ceremony, I was busy helping at home for the reception, where i looked after the bar. Who was my first customer? The right reverend local priest!
It is not only the child abuse that tarnishes their morals.
My brother in law is a very religous person. C of E in the UK. He married a divorcee and the local priest refused to let them marry in the church. They married in a registry office. I was there for the occasion, but didn't go to the ceremony, I was busy helping at home for the reception, where i looked after the bar. Who was my first customer? The right reverend local priest!
