Do NASA's observations rebut the Greens rhetoric?

Old Koreelah

Well-Known Member
#61
Point of historical interest.

It is a fact that one of the goals of the establishment of the colony of NSW by the British was to obtain land on which to grow hemp fibre. The fibre was essential for rope-making which the British Navy needed by the mile...
I once worked with a wiry, dope-worn old hippy who told us how hemp used to grow all over the Hawkesbury.
He reckoned that in the good old days the coppers would arrest him for drunkedness, then give him back his pouch of funny green tobacco.
 

Litespeed

Well-Known Member
#62
A lot of it had to do with Napoleon, he wanted to ensure the British had no source if hemp which is essential as ropes, caulking of planks and resins the ships used. Many tons were required for each ship and replaced often. Too lose supply could bring a navy to its knees. The Russians ended up supplying the British via American privateers, this led to Napoleon GPI g to war with Russia.

The potential to ensure hemp supplies made Australia of strategic importance. The Hawkesbury river are was were the hemp was grown, but eventual peace with France after Napoleon's final defeat meant it became less important as Europe was now again supplying the hemp.
 

spacesailor

Well-Known Member
#63
Iv'e heard that marijuana is similar (or identical) to hemp.
Google'd it.
“Hemp” is another name for the Cannabis sativa plant and its products. This same species of plant is also called marijuana.
Grow lots for the youth at the Music Festival. Then ban SMOKING. LoL
Well you Will see the perpetrators.
spacesailor
 

old man emu

Well-Known Member
#64
1775 is the year of the American revolution, after which the british could no longer use America. So settlement of Australia was a side-effect of that revolution.
That is quite correct as far as transportation of convicts goes, but at the same time Britain was being worried by the expansion of Spain, Russia and France. In the mid-1700s, Britain grabbed French possessions in Canada and India. Russia tried to take the Crimea from the Ottomans, who were allies of the British. Spain was seizing British fur trading vessels along the American North Pacific Coast. At the same time Europeans were moving into the South Pacific.

It was logical for Britain to establish a good foothold somewhere from which it could operate its navy over the Indian Ocean and the east coast of Asia.
 

nomadpete

Well-Known Member
#65
OME, that's interesting background. Never got that history in my school days!

Also, it is exactly the same strategic occupation policy that gave us Pine Gap, which I believe is actually a piece of US territory in the middle of Australia.
 

Bruce

Well-Known Member
#66
Paranoia against the Russians was still there when they build Fort Largs near Adelaide in the 1860's. They must have envisaged a sailing ship carrying some soldiers, sailing from Russia, into the range of the 2 big guns based there.
Well it gave a lifetime easy job for the lucky garrison huh.
 

old man emu

Well-Known Member
#68
OME, that's interesting background. Never got that history in my school days!
There are a lot of reasons for accurate Australian history never having been taught in the 20th Century. I think the main one was that we were taught a selective history. We learned lots about British colonization from 1788 to 1821, but after that, barely nothing until the Gold Rush unless it related to the explorers. We we were taught nothing after the Gold Rush until the Kelly Gang ( and that is a highly biased story), then nothing until 1914. That history was the history of the Celebrities of the day, not the common masses.

I think two of the greatest aids to writing an accurate history of Australia are the Internet and an interest in family genealogy. Each one of us can access either contemporary news paper articles relating to our ancestors, or official records through Internet searches, or accessing the actual documents from archives. From my research into my family history, I've learned lots about the day-to-day history of the places where my ancestors lived. As a result of that research, I've been side-tracked into the topics of convict transportation and have developed a clearer picture of Aboriginal/European interaction during the European occupation of the land.
 

old man emu

Well-Known Member
#69
Sorry to tell you guys, but the hemp for smoking is a different cultivar from the rope-making stuff. Smoking rope does nothing for you.
That's where the British made a big mistake in trying to grow hemp for fibre in India. The Indian sub-species is Cannabis indica ( formerly C. sativa var indica). That's the one that has the high levels of cannabinoids (the good sh!t). The fibre species is C. sativa. It grows tall and has significantly less cannabinoids. It is the height of the plant that provides the long fibres for rope making. The Indian variety is a shorter plant, so does not produce the length of fibre that makes good rope.
 

willedoo

Well-Known Member
#70
Paranoia against the Russians was still there when they build Fort Largs near Adelaide in the 1860's. They must have envisaged a sailing ship carrying some soldiers, sailing from Russia, into the range of the 2 big guns based there.
Well it gave a lifetime easy job for the lucky garrison huh.
Bruce, a lot of it had to do with the geopolitics of the American Civil War which ran from 1861 to 1865. A good starting point for some reading on the subject is to google the history of the CSS Shenandoah.

The Confederate ship and crew of the CSS Shenandoah were the last Confederate forces to surrender, about six months after the end of the land fighting. About 20% of their crew were Australians. They officially surrendered in England.

Britain supported the Confederate States, and by default, the Australian colonies did as well. Russia was a strong ally of the United States. Around the time the Shenandoah put in to Melbourne and recruited local crew, there was ongoing concern that Britain might officially recognize the Confederacy. A large section of the Russian Navy was down here for a so called good will visit to our ports, but then they sailed out and the Russians declared that if Britain announced recognition of the CSA, they would be at war with us and would sail into Melbourne and shell it.

Originally, as a cover, the Shenandoah was supposedly sold to New Zealand, then sailed near there where a Royal Navy ship supplied it with cannons and gear, then handed it over to the Confederates. It spent it's career as a free hunter, sinking American whalers and cargo ships. It had quite a tally by war's end. The Victorian colonial officials heard that the Confederates were looking for crew so they expressly forbid it to maintain a neutral stance, as many U.S. ships docked there as well. The Australian crew contingent stowed away below decks until they were safely away in international waters.

Confederate ships visiting Australian ports was a tipping point for America's ally, Russia; like a red line for them. Because of the major power's alliances, the American Civil War always ran the risk of developing into a global conflict.
 
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Old Koreelah

Well-Known Member
#71
Paranoia against the Russians was still there when they build Fort Largs near Adelaide in the 1860's...
Under the Harbour bridge on Millers Point there was a fort built to repel those pesky Russians.
Years ago we made a rare trip to Sydney and fluked the timing to be on hand just as a backhoe unearthed a brick staircase to the underground armoury.
Archaeologist had already excavated six big gun emplacements with semicircular tracks.
They also found a deep semicircular tunnel cut into the living rock to anchor the cables that held the arches of the Bridge until it was complete.
 

nomadpete

Well-Known Member
#73
Yeah, but that's from the BBC. And we've been warned that the BBC'S is rife with .leftie, greenie propagandists.

Interesting piece of research though. It suggests that there is hope for us to put the brakes on our global CO2 addiction. If only we can get our leaders to make forward planning happen.
 

Litespeed

Well-Known Member
#75
I think the study makes a really good point. We should follow the effects of colonisation by gun and disease as suffered by Australia, the Americas and sadly too many others.

Simple really just kill 90% of the population and let nature do its thing.

Or we could stop deniers and get on will doing real action, before the planet kills us off for the parasites we are.
 

Bruce

Well-Known Member
#76
Most native deaths were the result of germs brought in by the colonists.
There is a great book " Guns Germs and Steel" explaining how it happened. An example being how when whites arrived at the mississipi, instead of meeting a chiefdom which could have fielded an army of thousands , they found some shattered survivors of a smallpox epidemic.
A similar thing on a much smaller scale happened in Australia. Nobody knows what the aboriginal population would have been without the germs.
 
#77
The problem is, which 10% of the worlds population gets selected to remain. I would fight to the death if someone were to come and try and take myself or my family/friends from that select group.. Oh! Wait! Problem solved.
 

Old Koreelah

Well-Known Member
#78
The first white fellas to explore the 'Bidgee were surprised they encountered so few people living in that rich riverine environment. Decades before, an influenza epidemic had spread west from Sydney and decimated the Wiradjuri and other nations. Our ancestors, mostly inadvertently, so weakened the previous occupants of the land with disease, that their occupation of the land was relatively unopposed.
 

pmccarthy

Well-Known Member
#79
Sturt at Wentworth found a thriving village with long houses (like islander houses) living on yabbies and fish where the three rivers met. Next expedition found nothing, not even trace of the houses. Death and fire within a few years.
 

Old Koreelah

Well-Known Member
#80
Interesting, PM. I didn't know that.
Early cedar cutters on the Clarence reported semi-permanent houses at least 100' long, near where Grafton now sits. An old Bandjalung songman once told me that hundreds of people would gather there in the rainy summer season for ceremony and feasting, then disperse upcountry for the winter.
 
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