GPS jamming

willedoo

Well-Known Member
#1
It's been amusing reading all the press hoo ha about the alleged Russian jamming of the GPS systems at NATO's big exercise in Norway. So far Finland's PM and the Norwegian Defense Ministry have made the accusation, and Denmark's Defence Minister has said ' The GPS jamming incident was another sign of Russia's "aggressive" behaviour towards neighbouring countries '. Which is just a bit of new cold war propaganda bs.

Let's be real here, there's a high probability that the Russians did just that. Why wouldn't they do something in response to the biggest NATO exercise in decades right in their back yard and directed at them? But it's about time that the NATO milk sops pulled their socks up and started to do what they're paid for. Alice in Wonderland might carry out a large military exercise and be naive enough to think everything would go her way, but you would expect a bit more from NATO.

There's no disguising the fact that the 50,000 troop exercise is all about practice to defend against an attack on NATO states by the Russian Federation and also to send a message to Moscow that we've got a bigger d**k than you. Surely the professional military people in NATO would have seen it as a gift to the exercise, as the jamming would be a given in a real war. Normal people would take the experience at face value and treat it as a learning curve to prevent it from happening next time.

I'd really like to have faith in professional military people and think that they would be very happy that the Russians did that, from a training and realism point of view in the exercise. Because if the real thing happens, NATO's mother is not going to be there to hold their hands. It would be tempting to dismiss it as NATO wankers, but I really think it's just the politicians carrying on with the bs, and that the men and women in uniform are carrying on being the professionals that they are.

It reminds me of the head in the sand attitude of the US when one of our noisy diesel Collins class submarines got the drop on a US carrier and called them up and said 'bang, you're dead'. Instead of telling them to try it again, they banished our sub to a zone far away from the carrier group for the rest of the exercise. No wonder they can't win a war.
 

Bruce

Well-Known Member
#2
I reckon the Russians did them a favor. If I was Putin, I would keep that ability to jam GPS as a secret weapon.

In WW2, it was known that aluminium chaff jammed radar, but both sides didn't use it for years because they were enjoying their new toys too much.

Getting back to the GPS stuff, what if you could take over the GPS signal and send the missiles back to where they came from? What fun.
 

Marty_d

Well-Known Member
#3
Getting back to the GPS stuff, what if you could take over the GPS signal and send the missiles back to where they came from? What fun.
I like the way you think. Now if we could only extend that to artillery, bombs, bullets, knives and fists, we'd be on the way to being a peaceful world.
 

willedoo

Well-Known Member
#4
It will be interesting to see how the British quantum compass positioning system works out in the future. I'd guess that even without satellites involved, it would still be vulnerable to jamming. If the Russians can interfere with GPS signals, it would probably be a good bet that the US can do the same to the Russian Glonass system.
 

Bruce

Well-Known Member
#6
I would like to buy a phone jammer to use just under my roof. Once I had a dinner-guest who answered his phone loudly and at length while at the table.
There should be a logo you could stick on your front door to say that visitor's phones don't work in here.
 

facthunter

Well-Known Member
#7
I think it was Ded (Deduced ) reckoning rather than Dead (deceased) reckoning. You do it when you don't achieve a positive "FIX" so your ETA based on it will be suitably annotated, as less accurate. The longer you go without a positive fix the more so..
This is VFR based navigation. If your Radio or GNSS based Nav was similarly deprived of reliable signal/verification you could still proceed with a Ded Reckoning process or plot as the next best available. (better then nothing ) approach using basics like TAS still air track on a corrected magnetic compass and apply wind forecasts or known. and use Drift meters, Inertial, star or sun shots (Like in the old days). Nev
 

nomadpete

Well-Known Member
#8
Sorry Nev
I stand corrected.
I always just called it DR, or (when applicable) a 'running fix', and never thought much about the spelling.
 

facthunter

Well-Known Member
#9
Dead accurate is a term not to be confused with what's happening there. Most get it wrong, Pete. The origin makes it understandable. Few alive today have had the practical experience of using it in real situations on long distance flights. On a smaller scale you could establish a concept of an "area of probability" for your position which if you are forced into the situation is much better than nothing. LSALTS use that concept, to define the area where the terrain affects it's determination often misinterpreted by Instructors teaching basic Navigation. these days, as to how and when it applies.. Nev
 
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facthunter

Well-Known Member
#11
Very Punny... Whatever you reckon . David. A lot of them didn't go dead because they knew this.. It's the middle bit of Aviate Navigate, Communicate. where you don't fly at the precise climbing speed, talking to ATC into the side of a mountain you "knew" was there "someplace" more or less.. Nev
 

David2ayo

Active Member
#12
Any tool that requires someone elses technology to work is a bit sus, in my opinion. Very helpful 99% of the time, that 1% sucks! Must admit, I'm still getting my head around that "Aviate" part of the equation, so "Navigate" happens by good luck and short distances. I suppose the faster you go the more critical the tools, and military aircraft generally have stall speeds in excess of Vne of the Jab 160c I'm learning on at present.
 

facthunter

Well-Known Member
#13
The faster you go, the quicker you get lost if you are not flying in the right direction. Funny how My GPS would" fail to locate satellites" etc on the days where the VFR conditions were close to marginal. Never rely on a single instrument exclusively. Back it up with others.
.. Aviate is "attitude" navigate is" point it and clear terrain" and communicate is panic?" talk". The last one is definitely conditional on maintaining the other two as a priority... Nev
 
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