green power solar is

#2
Hinkley Point C will alone have 3,000,000 tonnes of concrete poured. There are two other facilities in that plant. Only need to find 5 more facilities and that's a lot of rather environmentally nasty concrete around at the same weight... But, this is a large facility, so assume 10 more facilities.. not hard to find within the tiny UK. Coal plants use less and Gas even less.. But concrete alone for these in Aus will easily exceed 20m tonnes.

Each generation source has their advantages and disadvantages and its about finding the right mix that maximises output/reliability v environmental and economic cost - the priority between economic and environmental cost seemingly tilting to the latter.
 

Old Koreelah

Well-Known Member
#3
by 2050 china will have 20,000,000 tonnes of solar panel that will have to be recycled now that's a lot off scrap neil
Not nearly as much scrap as other industries create. Solar panels will be quite valuable, even at the end of their useful life. They contain a lot of almost pure silicon.
Waste generates lots of jobs. Given the rate at which robots are displacing human workers, the silicon recycling industry would be a valuable employment opportunity.
 

octave

Well-Known Member
#9
Of course, any technology has its pros and cons. Consider the disposal or recycling of computer equipment.

Reading the whole article does present a mixed picture.

"In Europe, some companies are reported to have developed sophisticated technology to reclaim more than 90 per cent of the materials.

But the western technology might face a hard sell in China, according to Tian"

.“If a recycling plant carries out every step by the book to achieve low pollutant emission, their products can end up being more expensive than new raw materials,” he said.
A sales manager of a solar power recycling company believes there could be a way to dispose of China’s solar junk, nonetheless.

“We can sell them to Middle East,” said the manager who requested not to be named.

“Our customers there make it very clear that they don’t want perfect or brand new panels. They just want them cheap,” he said.

“They are re-selling these panels to household users living in deserts. There, there is lots of land to install a large amount of panels to make up for their low performance,” the manager added.

“Everyone is happy with the result,” he added.
 

facthunter

Well-Known Member
#11
WHO is this "everyone" person. Seems to be quoted often but none find him/her. It's like Nobody's perfect but he's on this site. and available... so ask him.
"Silent majority" don't make any noise about anything. Squeaky wheels get oil. The left wing has equal influence on an aeroplane in flight.. Solar Panels aren't a silly con. THAT'S what they are made of (one of the most common substances in the earth's crust
Neil is fighting a losing battle with this topic. Even the Business Council of Australia want stuff he hates.
Wind farms make you sick, endanger the spiflicated warbler and cause climate change, ( if they are turned up too far), and they blow powerlines over in SA. THOSE winds were not a natural climate event. They didn't happen before windfarms .. 2+2 make er something or other. Anyhow it's obvious the two are connected. It just doesn't add up if you can't see that. Blind Freddy CAN see it. It's as plain as the nose on your face
Coal is the answer to poverty in the developing world but will make a few millionaires a lot richer as well, (especially the generous ones who kick in for the Party) if we don't let the POOR to get solar first. ALL the talk about pollution is made up by greenies who have a vested interest in having trees to hug.THEY want Timber mills to close down, before all the forests are used up. What a waste.!.
Another thing.... Queensland has a great future as the landfill capital of the world. All the big coal mine holes are potential GOLD mines really, Like they will make GOLD (money) get it? if you have eyes to see.. We need as many big holes as possible for the future disposal of the stuff from Bunnings, plus, 3 year old cars, birthday presents for last year. PLASTIC..bags. Hospital waste. etc. You don't want it down the end of your street, do you? (By the way the last question is NOT in the exam . It is too contentious and divisive, I am advised. Nev
 

Old Koreelah

Well-Known Member
#12
well o k just goes to show there is two sides to every story sorry neil
Yes that's true Neil. I've seen quite a bit of both sides during 40 years working in solar design, and have read an awful lot about solar energy and other renewables during that time. What stands out is the dogged persistence of those who want to protect wasteful, polluting industries. When one lot of their twaddle has been proven wrong they come up with another
 

facthunter

Well-Known Member
#13
The usual last retreat is "Well, I'll be dead by the time that happens". Don't a lot of them have Kids? I've even heard bringing THAT up is emotional blackmail. There's thousands still dieing NOW in coalmines and plenty outside of them die of other air pollution effects. One of MY ancestors died of silicosis, SLOWLY from the effects of coalmining in Newcastle. The truth is "There's money in coal so you all can go see a taxidermist, because we want to keep making money". Those coal seams are sedimentary and as well as CARBON which forms CO2 which makes the earth warmer and the Oceans ACIDIC there are heavy metals and other toxic substances released when it's combusted. There's mountains of sulphur produced from refining OIL Though "Bunker fuel" has about 7% sulphur still in it and if you live in Mosman you're copping that from cruise ships parked there burning it for the generators etc. It only forms sulphuric acid so don't worry. It brings in income for somebody. and that makes it OK. Nev
 

octave

Well-Known Member
#14
well thats good put all the old solar panels in the desert 20 000000 tonnes wont take long for shifting sand to berry problem solved neil
So your in depth research has found that solar power is not viable in the middle east because it will get covered in shifting sand. Neil, you just made that up didn't you? As it happens the middle east is quite enthusiastic about solar power. Solar Power Invades Oil-Rich Middle East

Can I ask why you are so concerned about the recycling of solar panels but not the decommissioning of coal plants or the disposal coal combustion products Coal Ash Basics | US EPA

The recycling of solar panels is minuscule compared to the nuclear industry Inside Sellafield: how the UK's most dangerous nuclear site is cleaning up its act
 

spacesailor

Well-Known Member
#15
We had the same disposal problem with glass!.
Uneconomic to recycle, so a machine was invented to crush glass bottles down to the consistency of sand, other than adding it to road tar, or putting it in compost.
Idea's are wanted for a good use, personally used it in concrete and epoxy.
spacesailor
 
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facthunter

Well-Known Member
#16
Yes solar doesn't want heat It wants Photons. Coal doesn't work well at high temps either. They manage to keep the sand off roads out in the centre. It's not a desert like the Sahara where it's a bigger problem even encroaching on farms around the Nile. Perhaps roads could be solar panels. It's only about 120 years since horses could be replaced by the infernal combustion engine, that wastes 3/4 of the energy of burning fossil fuel. Imagine what the next 100 years could bring if we worked sensibly together instead of thinking open slather capitalism fixes everything, when for one thing it's based on short term profit with no offset for the damage caused. Continuation of that situation could NOT bring about a good outcome. Nev
 

facthunter

Well-Known Member
#18
Because YOU rubbish them, you would have to convince us otherwise, in those circumstances. Was putting them on the mobile home an aberration or a mistake? My first installation was a disaster from the economics point of view, but I know more about these things now, and what I got for $14,000 I can now get for $ 4,000 and it's better stuff. (more efficient). Nev
 

Yenn

Well-Known Member
#19
We are ruled ( maybe over run ) by spin doctors. It just amazes me the amounf of rubbish spouted by experts on the emdia about solar, re cyclable etc.
Pity the poor politician he doesn't know what to think or even if he should.
 
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